Re: Not always joking, it seems

Jette <bosslady@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
news:GHZtj.8806$XI.5656@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

> John Schilling wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:20:08 GMT, "Karl Johanson"
>> <karljohanson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> 
>>> "John Schilling" <schillin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>>>> On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:39:36 GMT, "Karl Johanson" 
>>>> <karljohanson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>
>>>>> It can go lots of ways. ...he's suicidal and/or psychotic,
>>>>> so he shoots
>>>>> anyway. 100 people start firing their shot guns at the
>>>>> stage. Some are bad shots, some are only good shots when
>>>>> they aren't full of adrenalin (and these are side arms, not
>>>>> sniper rifles). Some audience members are
>>>>> hit. Students in the hall hear hundreds of gunshots and
>>>>> burst into the room with their sidearms, looking to put an
>>>>> end to whatever nastiness is
>>>>> going on in the auditorium. Some shoot at the shooters in
>>>>> the audience (seeing the hamburgered guy on stage, and lots
>>>>> of screaming and bleeding
>>>>> audience members). Students in the audience shoot back,
>>>>> thinking the ones who came from the hall might be with the
>>>>> guy they shot on stage. 
>> 
>>>> Is this truly how you expect you would react yourself, if for
>>>> whatever reason you happened to be carrying a gun?
>> 
>>> No, but I'm moderately well trained in firearms use. And I
>>> don't suggest every one would, or would in every case. 
>> 
>> Ah, so *you* can be trusted with guns, it's just everyone else
>> that we have to be careful about.
>> 
>> This is a surprisingly common view among gun-control
>> proponents. 
>> 
>> 
>>> As I said, "it can go lots of ways".
>> 
>> And yet it never, ever, ever *has* gone the way you describe,
>> in spite of the fact that there have been and still are many
>> human cultures in which a large fraction of the population goes
>> armed. 
>> 
>> But why bother letting pesky little facts get in the way of the
>> bit where you imagine you're so much better than everyone else?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> How many countries do you know of where "a large fraction of the
> population *goes armed*?"
> 
> Countries with high percentages of gun owner****p don't
> necessarily equate to the citizens actually _carrying_ the guns
> on a day to day basis.  ("go armed")
> 
In Florida, if you apply for a concealed carry permit, if you have 
not criminal record, and are not currently a mental patient 
committed against your will, the powers that be are pretty much 
required to approve it. In short, virtually the entire adult 
population of Florida *can* carry concealed, legally, if they 
choose. Other states are nearly as liberal in their laws (Texas 
comes to mind). Given the publicity of the change in the law in 
Florida (and the predictions of rivers of blood clogging up the 
storm drains), it's hard to imagine there are very many people in 
Florida would *like* to get a ccw permit, but don't know how easy 
it is.

But, in real life, they have something like 3% who choose to get 
the permit, and less who choose to carry at any given time.

So, in the end, your question is nonsensical. A more productive 
question would be to ask about places where "a large fraction of 
the population *can* go around armed if they choose," and the 
answer is, there are plenty of places. Hell, Vermont doesn't even 
require a permit, last I heard. In Arizone, concealed carry is 
somewhat regulated, but open carry is a god-given right (and you 
see it, six-shooters on the hip, in quite a few places).

And, despite all this, the kind of horror movie scenarios Karl 
postulates _simpely don't happen_. Despite the dearly held beliefs 
of many people. guns really do not emit evil mind control rays that 
turn ordinary, peaceful, law-abiding citizens in to mass-murdering 
homicidal manaics. The presence of a firearm in the hands (or under 
the coat) of someone with no criminal history really doesn't have 
any significant chance of escalating a situation that would 
otherwise remain non-violent, and in fact, stands a good chance of 
*de*escalating a potentially violent situation in to a verbal 
confrontation.

And, according to the only study I've ever seen on random mass 
public shootings, shall issue laws are the *only* thing that has 
any real effect in terms of reducing the likelyhood.

-- 
Terry Austin

"There's no law west of the internet."
    - Nick Stump

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.