On Apr 3, 11:26 am, Just.A.New...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Apr 2, 10:40 pm, Kip Williams <ki...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> > > Andre Lieven <andrelie...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > For fuck's sake, Keith, just take a leaf from your own advice on spam.
> > Filter. Resist the temptation to quote. Don't respond.
>
> Michael Vick would love this sort of blood sport.
Well, perhaps.
But, this does go back to Keith slandering Philcon, and then,
when *several people* called him on his bullshit, him whining that
his freedom to ask question was being interfered with.
Heres Keith's original post, followed by Douglas Berry and
Evelyn Leeper both criticising Keith:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: 10 Mar 2008 21:24:02 -0400
Local: Tues, Mar 11 2008 3:24 am
Subject: Re: Philcon is in New Jersey (!) this year
Evelyn C. Leeper <elee...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> In other words, walking to meals is a definite problem.
What about walking to the *hotel*? I go to Philcon on the Chinatown
bus from DC. How far is this year's hotel from Philadelphia's
Chinatown? Is there a city bus that goes that way? Philcon's
website doesn't say.
> In a suburban hotel, you can easily drive to a variety of
> restaurants.
Is Philcon intended for all fans, or only for motorists?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html
before emailing me.
http://groups.google.co.za/group/rec.arts.sf.fandom/msg/06d2df36473525c2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: Douglas Berry <penguin_...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:26:05 -0700
Local: Sat, Mar 22 2008 1:26 am
Subject: Re: Philcon is in New Jersey (!) this year
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:16:23 -0400 fanoid <fan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
carved
the following into the hard stone of rec.arts.sf.fandom
- Hide quoted text -
>In
>Message-ID:<466ede66-439e-4ffa-ba95-4f15dfe09...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>Andre Lieven <andrelie...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>No, I call Bullshit on this backpedaling away from being responsible
>>for what you did actually write
>>From: "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>I know that fen are notorious for having bad social skills. Is it
>really necessary for you to demonstrate it so well?
>Fandom should be synonymous with friends. Is it such a sin to ask
>friends for information that they might have handy, before
>googling?
>But it is a sin to publicly hound an individual based on your own
>reactions to a (perhaps badly phrased) remark that was not meant
>to antagonize anyone.
Keith whines and complains, and then when people do all the research
for him, still complains. His post accused the convention of catering
to motorists as if it were some sort of conspiracy to keep him out,
because Keith, being a Special Snowflake, is inconvenienced by the
move.
In 30 years of fandom, I've found that we can be a hard-assed lot
when
dealing with someone who annoys the group (whatever that group may
be.) Someone who bites the hand that is trying to help him is going
to
annoy many people.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:14:48 -0400
Local: Mon, Mar 17 2008 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: Philcon is in New Jersey (!) this year
David Goldfarb wrote:
> In article <frmun7$l0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> <Just.A.New...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> The Philcon folks seem to have a Work In Progress, this from the
>>> version updated on the 14th of March:
>>> "The hotel, just five miles from Center City Philadelphia, is
>>> accessible by train and bus, and features free parking!"
>> If it's only five miles, I'd just as soon walk. But I have to
>> know the way.
> I'm sure Google Maps would be happy to give you directions -- click
> on the option that says "avoid highways". There might even be
> a "Street View" available.
I'll say it again--if you are that committed to getting there in some
specific way, then you need to take some responsibility for figuring
out
how to do it. Finding buses or walking routes isn't hard--even those
of
us who aren't going to use them can find them in a minute or so. But
you seem to think that not only should the convention be placed so
that
you can get there by your absolute first preference, but they are
also
responsible for holding your hand on how to do it. (And never mind
that
it's still eight months away, and by then they may very well have
instructions for how to skateboard there.)
Well, they're not responsible for that--you are. And not by
complaining
here so that we end up doing all the work for you.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Heretic: someone who disagrees with you about
something neither of you knows anything about.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, Keith's later whines that it was " only " me " attacking " him is
also well proven bullshit.
Then, on the Eastercon thread, I summarised the argument thus:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: Andre Lieven <andrelie...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Mar 25 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Re: Eastercon 2010
On Mar 24, 9:52 pm, "Keith F. Lynch" wrote:
> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > "Keith F. Lynch" wrote:
> >> (Evelyn, Douglas, this is your cue to start flaming Alan for daring
> >> to ask a question rather than doing his own research.)
> > Nah, I'd rather flame you. See, if you had asked the question it
> > would have come out like this:
> > "That's not possible, and I suspect that you are lying for your own
> > purposes! I demand that you back up these claims!"
>
> Please show me where I called anyone a liar, or demanded anything
> of anyone.
The latter has already been shown to you.
You started your side of the Philcon Moves thread fairly reasonably:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: "Keith F. Lynch"
Date: 23 Feb 2008 15:16:13 -0500
Local: Sat, Feb 23 2008 4:16 pm
Subject: Philcon is in New Jersey (!) this year
Philcon will be in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, November 21-23, the
weekend before Thanksgiving.
I'm not sure if I can get there. I have updated
http://KeithLynch.net/cons.html
to reflect my possible absence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your last two sentences suggest that, whether or not you had
explored any alternative ( to you ) means of transport to the con,
that you had arrived at a decision, and that is completely your
right to do for yourself.
But, you then outliered your way into a hissy fit aimed at people
who dare to live differently from you:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: "Keith F. Lynch"
Date: 10 Mar 2008 21:24:02 -0400
Local: Mon, Mar 10 2008 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Philcon is in New Jersey (!) this year
Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> In other words, walking to meals is a definite problem.
What about walking to the *hotel*? I go to Philcon on the Chinatown
bus from DC. How far is this year's hotel from Philadelphia's
Chinatown? Is there a city bus that goes that way? Philcon's
website doesn't say.
> In a suburban hotel, you can easily drive to a variety of
> restaurants.
Is Philcon intended for all fans, or only for motorists?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, while its true that your last line right above is neither a lie
not an *overt* demand, it does show that in your view, catering
in any way to fans who dare drive to cons is, in your view, a Bad
Idea.
It further suggests that, if a concom dares to use a facility that
is neither on an urban rapid transit line or a Chinatown bus stop,
that that is some form of " discrimination " against the difference
between the set of " all fans " and the set of " only ( for )
motorists. "
In *your* words. Which set up an untrue claim.
In that stated view of yours, you are spectacularly wrong and
narcissistic, in your position, for it is 1) Not the concom's job
to arrange the con just to suit your demands, and 2) It IS your
responsibility to arrange your travel needs to any con, or to any
destination that you want/need to get to.
Many people showed that you *have* alternatives in getting to
Philcon, should you choose to, but you swept that all aside due to
your annoyance at feeling picked on ( Which really was discussion
where your view is NOT taken as The One True Way ).
And, its perfectly fine to " ask questions ", where such questions
are really actual questions, and not statements in fig leaf disguise,
which your " only for motorists " whine was. You earned the
criticism that came your way for 1) being dishonest in that way,
and for 2) inventing a false antagonism between " all fans " and
" only for motorists ".
You earned it, so accept the consequences of your chosen words.
Andre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the above summary, I specified where he had been unreasonable,
as well as where he had been reasonable.
But, apparently, with Keith, ANY criticism of his outlier ways is a
nuclear attack on him and ALL of fandom, and he then goes, well,
postal.
<shrug>
He started all this, by slandering Philcon for daring to not cater to
his
whims. All he has to do is be honest enough to admit his original
action. The consequences for his chosen act of slander are, as I have
said in the quoted posts, his, alone.
Andre
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