Re: Larry Niven: Terrorize Latinos to Solve Health Care Crisis

On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:04:39 -0700, Kurt Busiek <kurt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>On 2008-05-05 08:48:18 -0700, David Friedman 
><ddfr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>
>> In article
>> <7467cb38-d6e6-4bdb-ba15-024c2d269b6e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>  "louann_m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
" <louann_m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> 
>>> On May 4, 8:47 pm, David Friedman <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <slrng1sket.6u7....@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>>> d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>>>>> That is not a source, that is an assertion.

>>>>> Certainly: I am asserting that we think you're not providing the
link
>>>>> because you can't. Prove us wrong. Humiliate us with your awesome
skills
>>>>> and your superior net-fu. Grind us into the dust by, you know,
actually
>>>>> _showing_ us where to find this story that so caught your eye, so
quickly
>>>>> after your previous post, that you had to post back here and tell us
>>>>> about
>>>>> it. Make us cry for mercy by smiting us with a URL or other way of
>>>>> locating it.

>>>> I'm curious. If he does so, will you in fact feel humiliated,
apologize,
>>>> concede online that you were in the wrong?

>>> Like a motion to adjourn, a request for a cite is always in order.
>>> Getting the requested cite doesn't require cringing and general
>>> submissive behavior, but a straightforward "thanks, I appreciate the
>>> footnote" is a good reply.

>> In this case, however, the person not only requested the cite, he
>> accused the previous poster of not providing it because it wasn't
there,
>> pretty clearly implying that the previous poster had lied about his
>> source--as you can see from what is quoted above.

>Not quite.  It was M-space-Schilling who requested the cite, and 
>Delaney has since suggested that he thinks J-space-Schilling isn't 
>providing it because he can't.

>And no assumption of cupidity was made in the initial request -- those 
>only came after J-space-Schilling declared the request for a cite 
>insulting.

Is there a reason you're not willing to use my name here?  Or Mike's?
It would be one thing if you were using an abbreviation to save time,
space, and/or bandwidth, but this is just wierd.


>Anyway, after that I gave up.  J-space was trying to make a point, but 
>is unwilling to back it up.  

I am perfectly willing to back it up.  I am even willing to be somewhat
flexible as to the method - but only within limits.  To allow the other
party to arbitrarily set the terms by which claims may be supported, is
entirely unacceptable, and not a precedent I am willing to set.


>He doesn't need to be tried, punished, 
>justified, lionized or whatever.  It's probably enough to note that 
>when asked to back up his claim, he declared it an insulting request.  
>The audience he's trying to make the point to will either agree with 
>him or not, but it'll ultimately only affect whether or how well his 
>point is made.

>I'll assume he never asks others to cite evidence for their claims, 
>thinking it insulting to do so, unless I happen to see otherwise.

That would be a narrowminded assumption.  Sometimes I *want* to be
insulting.  Sometimes I am willing to be, as the necessary means to
a sufficiently important end.  And sometimes I will politely ask for
a cite as a pointer to additional information about the topic, without
expressing doubt as to the original claim.

But, in general, I rarely ask for citations. 

If community standards are that it is considered always acceptable to
ask, victory by default if the other guy doesn't comply, and rude for
the other guy to object, I may have to reevaluate that policy.


-- 
*John Schilling                    * "Anything worth doing,         *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP       *  is worth doing for money"     *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner *    -13th Rule of Acquisition   *
*White Elephant Research, LLC      * "There is no substitute        *
*John.Schillin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
      *  for success"                  *
*661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795      *    -58th Rule of Acquisition   *