Re: Space funding (was Re: Hillary needs to quit)

Derek Lyons wrote:
> "Dano" <janeanddano@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> Derek Lyons wrote:
>>> "Dano" <janeanddano@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Schilling wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:13:32 -0500, pv+usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (PV)
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Schilling <schillin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>>>>>>>> And you'd be right. Obama discussed delaying the Constellation
>>>>>>>> Project for five years, not shutting down NASA. *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did he say NASA was going to be doing during those five
>>>>>>> years instead of Constellation?
>>>>>
>>>>>> (groups trimmed, subject refocused)
>>>>>
>>>> <more trimming...back to the over-riding issue>
>>>>
>>>> "When more than 1 million students a year drop out of high school,
>>>> it's more than a problem, it's a catastrophe." - Colin Powell,
>>>> founding chairman of America's Promise Alliance, which issued a
>>>> re****t last Tuesday that says 17 of the 50 largest cities have high
>>>> school graduation rates below 50 percent. (from the Boston Globe,
>>>> April 5th - Quotes of Note)
>>>>
>>>> We can't afford to educate the next generation of NASA employees.
>>>> We better figure out how to do that first.  It's about spending
>>>> priorities.
>>>
>>> Ever actually compared NASA's budget to those 'other priorities'?
>>>
>>> I thought not.  Or you'd note what a vani****ngly small drop in the
>>> bucket it amounts to.  Someone even more intellectually honest and
>>> agile would note the vast amount of money we've spent on those
>>> 'other priorities' over the years, and the astoni****ngly small
>>> return - and wonder if the problem really was that we aren't
>>> shoveling enough money into the furnace.
>>>
>>
>> I know that education spending *is* a very small drop in the bucket
>> compared to the spending on the havoc we haved wreaked in the Middle
>> East lately.
>
> Nice - when confronted with facts you don't want to acknowledge...
> You move the goalposts.
>

Same pool of money we are spla****ng around in.  Sorry if you find that 
inconvenient.

>> Meanwhile...we have to educate our children...our future...now.  I
>> know more money alone is not the answer.
>
> Yet, your sole suggestion is to spend more money.
>

Not at all.  I'm not *just* arguing that.  I just happened to use
education 
as the example of one item I feel is higher on my list of priorities.  You

are certainly free to make your own list.

>> I also know *less* is certainly not.
>
> And you know this how?
>

Well I could cite my own town for starters.  Here in Massachusetts our 
property taxes are overwhelmed in large part, because that's how we pay
for 
our public school systems.  We refused to vote for tax increases to 
ourselves (always an interesting exercise...getting folks to vote to tax 
themselves more)...several times until this very month.  The condition of 
those schools have declined terribly.  Costs in everything continue to 
rise...teachers were let go...our high school is close to 
receiver****p...families who can afford private schools have fled the 
system...property values are in distinct decline.  That last item is what
I 
believe got voters to approve our first ever override of the famous (or 
infamous depending on your view) Propostion 2 1/2, and allow a 5.5 million

dollar increase for schools and public safety.  We tried doing with less 
money...didn't work.  Remember...school funding is mainly on the 
states...the feds only help with some aid here and there.  But both the 
state and federal governments *mandate* the public schools to adhere to
many 
things...yet don't provide a lot of help to pay for those, quite often.

>> This is also most certainly *not* the only item we need to spend on
>> *before* the space program.  This is one area that is absolutely
>> well suited to funding from the private sector...and for
>> international cooperation.  Let's get the wealthy oil nations, the
>> Chinese (who are already so enthusiastically investing in America),
>> the Japanese to join in this exploration.
>
> Ah yes, here you manage to pander to both ends of political spectrum
> by proposing not only privatization _but_ also joining hands around
> the globe and singing Kum Ba Ya.
>

Cute.  WTF does that kind of crap add to the discussion?  So I gather you 
are a militarist who wishes to run NASA as a nationalistic organization? 
If 
that's the plan, I'd be all for scrapping the whole civillian aspect and 
call it what it then really is...part of our defense spending.

>> If we...for example...presented this as an outlet to the
>> aimless youth being recruited into terrorist organizations in the
>> arab world...we might slow the spread of that type of fanatism.  But
>> let's start thinking outside the box we have placed ourselves
>> in...you know...that shoveling money into any furnace is a good
>> thing.
>
> Yet, you propose cutting the space program in favor of shoveling more
> money in to the education furnace.
>

Education being a vast waste of money?

> Do you actually think about this stuff in any detail, or just make it
> up as you go along?  (My bet is on the latter.)
>

Do you actually think at all?