"George W Harris" <gharrus@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:j27oq3lovt4du0lvdt8olp26p8qb70viq8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ... in T2 the date of John's birth is seen on a computer screen to be
> February 28th, 1985.
Which would mean he's 14 in February 1999, and still 14 after they skipped
forward 8 years to present day. I think the changes made to the timeline
allow for them to move his birthdate back to 1982 if they want to, making
him a closer to plausible 17-year-old high school student now. There's no
fundamental paradox in moving that date back, just as Judgment Day and
when and how Skynet happens and so on can be altered. Not so with the
constraints I listed and expressed again here...
> :The main point is that his existence is part of a time loop, and some
of
> :the assertions or excuses in other posts don't address that.
Suggesting
> :we just don't think about it, or using semantics that try to avoid or
> :wish away the inherent paradox, will be insufficient for the core base
> :that gets the issue.
>
> There is no inherent paradox in a closed timelike-curve, or a causal
loop.
> There's only a paradox in an *inconsistent* closed timelike curve; a
kill-
> your-grandfather situation.
Yes, but the context of the discussion was exactly that. In order to
avoid
such a paradox, I gave the two sets of constraints the show has to abide
by. Jojo's post went further and suggested they were locked in to even
more, while WGF posted that they don't have to abide by even the ones
I listed. One or more posters said just don't think about it, and there
was also insistence that even the principle of "one timeline" could be
kept
even when obvious paradoxes problems are created.
It is possible to come up with pseudoscientific explanations that thread
the needle and do all that, but it's not the kind of thing the show can
get
away with. The core problem, or strength if looked at positively, is that
Terminator is indeed a time loop story in certain fundamental respects.
John Connor being fathered by a human protector from the future is one
fundamental part of it. Terminators being sent back from the future to
kill John Connor, and protector machines to counter that, is another.
John Connor being the leader of humanity in its struggle against the
machines is in turn fundamental to that. That there be a struggle is in
turn central to that, which means Skynet or something like it must be
a threat.
Hence the constraints I mentioned. The show ingeniously skipped over
the finality of Terminator 3 in killing off Sarah Connor. That's more
than
a bit dubious in principle and as a practical matter. T3 did $150 million
domestic and almost double that abroad, for a total of $433 million
and that's just theatrical. Contrary to the usual negative natterings on
some forums like this, it had 71% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.
As the producers of T4 and its distributor (Warner Bros.) try to sell
a T4 movie, the market might ask "Why bother?" given what this TV
series did to T3. If the TV series were to abandon the constraints I
mentioned and piss away the first and second movies as well, the risk
of that would be even greater.
I've seen nothing in the show itself to indicate that it intends to
abandon
those constraints. Skipping over T3, and allowing people to think of it
as existing in some LOFT (Landscape of Fleeting Timelines), and never
mentioning it again, is fine. The series enjoys a huge benefit from doing
that, which is Saving Sarah Connor. So it was worth it. But suggesting
that the show may or even intends to create clear paradoxes in the
fundamental nature of the story would be bad for business, and to the
extent some onliners are suggesting that I think it's a sign the series
will
need to address this further, and soon.
For example the promo for the next ep spoke of one of John Connor's
best and trusted resistance fighters. Sounds like it could be a young
Reese perhaps. If it was, Cameron might be aware of him and be a
writer device for further developing the time loop arc, if we want to
call it that. She urges he must be saved, to preserve John's existence
or whatnot. She knew about Sarah Connor's death in the timeline they
purposely skipped over and averted, so she probably knows about
Reese and other aspects of John Connor's history. Part of her mission
may be to ****ge the timeline along but within the T1, T2, and this
series (Cameron's own existence) constraints.
At some point Young John Connor should be raising this paradox issue
himself, acting as a proxy for the kind of problem the original poster set
out. "Why should I bother fighting it, Mom? If we won, I'd cease to
exist. All of it must be predestined to happen, right down to Judgment
Day and my own father being sent back..." And the writers need to
have the right answer coming from Cameron, which would be that not
everything is pre-ordained or creates a fundamental paradox and that
Future John Connor is aware of this issue and knows what he's doing.
The subtext message to viewers would be that the series and franchise
will not be self-imploding or becoming a train wreck, so just enjoy the
ride. Which is not a bad message. The market for this movie is savvy
enough to be thinking about the same issues the original poster was.
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