Re: Is "Terminator" stuck in a "Gilligan's Island"-style dilemma?

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:21:30 -0800, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>
>"David Johnston" <david@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>news:b9vrq35svu317lp266ktk4j81tstf031g9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:28:48 -0800, "Arthur Lipscomb"
>> <arthur@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>It's not necessary that the exact future that produced that protector
>>>>>be there.
>>>>
>>>> The premise of the first move was that history can't be changed and
>>>> all events are predestined.  The premise of the second movie was that
>>>> things aren't predestined and history can be changed.  The premise of
>>>> the third move is that history can be changed but it don't matter a
>>>> lick.
>>>
>>>Wasn't the "no fate" line introduced in the first movie?
>>
>> No, it wasn't.  It was introduced in the second move.
>
>But the concept was introduced in the first movie.
>
>Sarah: "Are you saying it's from the future?"
>Reese: "One possible future."
>
>Later in the film when quoting a message from John to Sarah he says, "I 
>can't help you with what you must soon face, except to say that the
future 
>is not set."
>
>As far as I'm concerned the first movie established the characters
believed 
>the future could be changed.  The second movie simply picked up this
theme 
>and ran with it.  But it was introduced in the first movie.  Even the 
>concept of the first movie, killing Connor before birth, was to change
the 
>future.

Was to fail to change the future.  It's a meeting at Samarra.
Attempting to change the future is what causes it.  

>
>
>>
>> If history could
>>>not be changed there would be no point in sending back the first 
>>>terminator
>>>or Reese to stop it.
>>
>> Pfeh.  Like they had a choice.  In a fixed timeline it doesn't matter
>> whether your actions have a point because you have no alternative
>> courses of action.  You will do what you are predestined to do. You'll
>> just think it's because there's a reason for you to do it. Skynet is
>> sending back the Terminator because it doesn't know whether changing
>> history is possible or not and at this point it has nothing to lose by
>> trying.  John Connor on the other hand is sending back Reese because
>> he knows that's what he's predestined to do and he has no alternative
>> if he wants to exist.
>
>
>Wait so does John have free will or not?  

Not.  Sure he thinks he does.  He has to.  But his actions are all
predestined and he can't do anything else.