Re: Lost--Benjamin Linus: Action hero! ("The Shape Of Things To Come"

Dano sent the following on 5/1/2008 2:12 PM:
> Jim Gysin wrote:
>> Dano sent the following on 5/1/2008 11:10 AM:
>>> Jim Gysin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My take is that Ben didn't *know* Goodwin would be killed (how could
>>>> he?), but merely wanted him out of the picture for a while so that
>>>> he could pursue Juliet without Goodwin interfering.  At the same
>>>> time, when Goodwin actually *did* die, Ben wasn't all torn up about
>>>> it, but I question whether that alone makes Ben "evil."
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Ben wasn't all torn up about it"???  Did he need to do cartwheels to
>>> convince you that he was delighted?
>>
>> I don't recall him being *that* thrilled by it.  I might have to
>> re-watch that particular scene, at least.
>>
>>> Add to that the unquestionable act
>>> of cruelty in bringing Juliet to the scene as a cute surprise.  This
>>> guy is absolutely an evil bastard for that alone.
>>
>> I agree--in this instance.  I'm not trying to canonize the guy here,
>> you know; I'm just trying to dispel the whole black-and-white
>> oversimplifications.
>>
>>>> But Ben hasn't shown a complete disregard.  He's had other
>>>> opportunities to kill (or try to kill) and passed on them.  So at
>>>> the very least, he's selective when he acts in a way that's
>>>> consistent with your concept of "evil."
>>
>>> Mighty high standards for human decency you've got there.
>>
>> Personally, my standards in this regard are so high in the real world
>> as to cause me almost-constant disappointment.
>>
>> In this context, however, I'm just pointing out the difference between
>> "He's done some (seemingly) evil things" and "He's evil."
>>
> 
> Sure, there is a level of complexity to Ben.  No one is truly *ALL* good

> or evil...and definitely no character on this show.

That's all I was getting at, really.

>>> PS...even Jeffery Dahmer passed on a meal or two.  Might have just
>>> been watching his weight.  Ben uses others to further his nefarious
>>> goals.
>>
>> You make a lot of assumptions, starting with an apparent tendency to
>> think that you can mind-read and know people's intentions.
> 
> You are making an assumption is assuming I am.

Not really.

> I'm merely pointing out 
> an indefensible (to me anyway) action taken by Ben

And it's indefensible to you because of assumptions you're making.

> in order to 
> illustrate my feeling towards this character.  I'm not at all trying to 
> read his mind...only his deeds.  Many that we have seen, I find 
> repugnant.  I don't care about his intent.

I agree.  However, I think you're taking the adage "actions speak louder 
than words" a little too far here.  Intent is tremendously important. 
For example, while I don't like how Ben reacted in the Goodwin death 
situation, I can't assume to know everything there is to know about 
Goodwin.  At the very least, I don't know enough about Goodwin to label 
Ben "evil" over his reaction to Goodwin's death.  For all we know, 
Goodwin could have been more evil than Ben by a long shot, and I'm not 
going to assume that Ben's reaction was based *solely* on Ben's feelings 
for Juliet.  Yes, that clearly played a role, but there could be more to 
the story.

If there's one thing I've learned about Lost, it's to never assume 
*anything*.

-- 
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI