Re: SF Politics and Super Tuesday

"Michael S. Schiffer" <mschiffe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:

> Peter Bruells <usernet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> news:m263x0sxlw.fsf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
>
>> "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschiffe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
>>> Peter Bruells <usernet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>> news:m2tzklchvi.fsf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
>
>>>>> The law says "found".  While there are probably laws relating
>>>>> to re****ting foundlings, I would be very surprised if there
>>>>> were any statutes or cases that treated "found in a
>>>>> spacecraft" as a special case.  (Well, maybe in the DCU...)
>
>>>> Finding a child in an alien space craft crashlanded on Earth
>>>> seems - at least to me - establish that it wasn't born on
>>>> Earth. 
>  
>>> How do you know the origin of the spacecraft?  In at least one
>>> telling, even the Kents weren't even sure-- Jonathan speculated
>>> that it might be Russian.
>
>> And how convenient it was to lie to the authorities so that the
>> truth wasn't found out.  
>
> The Kents' actions are more than a little dodgy these days.  (What 
> if he was a kidnapping victim?  Or an alien Trojan Horse.)  But 
> it's probably decades too late to go after them, and it all worked 
> out.  Either way, it's not Superman's responsibility.

Nope. But you don't have to be responsible for anything NOT to be a
citizen. much less a natural born citizen. Witness the case of Manuel
Bartsch, for example. 

> In previous tellings, they just said they found him, took him to a 
> foundlings' home, and then adopted him.  No lies there, 

I doubt that they re****ted where they found him. Otherwise, there
would have been an investigation.

> and I don't know if there's any legal requirement to re****t
> space****p crashes.  (And they could have done so, since odds are the
> only result would have been to get them stared at.  Especially in
> the versions where the rocket self-destructed, leaving no trace.)

Yes, those versions are valid. As is the one of Byrne, where he was
literally born on Earth.
          
          ....


>> The catch is "looking". He's looking like a human, but isn't one,
>> which can be easily proved.
>
> I'm not sure that he's *not* human under American law.  I doubt
> there have ever been any cases that went to blood tests or DNA to
> establish humanness.  Whether laws forbidding discrimination on the
> basis of "race" includes species or not (where the subject clearly
> is capable of understanding rights and duties under the law) has,
> AFAIK, never been tested.  Given our previous experiences of
> discriminating on the basis of biology and appearance, I'd guess
> (and hope) that the courts would be very reluctant to do another
> Dred Scott.

Depends on WHEN he sues. 

> A common law system allows and requires judges to make reasonable
> interpretations and interpolations where the statutes are vague or
> ambiguous.  Given the choice between "Superman is legally a non-
> person or an animal" and "Kryptonians are legal persons", I'd
> predict most judges would choose the latter.  And if he's a person,
> then the law applies to him as much as it does the purest H.
> sapiens.

So do they apply to the enslaved gorillas in DC-US zoos?  After all,
they a hardly different from the obvisously intelligent people of
Gorilla City. :-)

>> It's not about stripping him of his citizen****p, but of his status
>> as natural born citizen.
>
> At this point, though, his citizen****p depends on the law as it 
> stands.  (Since Jonathan and Martha *didn't* naturalize him.)  The 
> court can't rewrite the law, it has to interpret what's there, 
> which pretty much makes Superman either a natural born citizen or a 
> noncitizen.
>
>  Arnold Schwarzenegger will
>> probabbly never ever be challanged on his nationality - he's an
>> American and very likely he'll die an American - but he'll never
>> run for president. 
>
> He was naturalized, though.  Superman wasn't.  He can't be
> retroactively declared to have done so, and if he's forced to start
> the process today that leaves his current status in limbo.

Well, you are not saying that Superman's above the law? :-)