Re: An Open Letter To Open-Minded Progressives

It may seem so, but it's not. especially in the final analisis. Liberalism 
politically and economically ultimately stands for government control of 
enterprise which eventually leads to corruption of that government and 
distruction of economy  -- slow, but steady which we are witness to.
Ethically Liberalism stands for Altruism (dont mix it with Humanity) whch 
leads to moral/ethical degradation.




"*Anarcissie*" <anarcissie@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:b4385fb8-c447-403f-b671-d51e8e9941d7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Apr 20, 3:42 pm, "skysi" <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> "*Anarcissie*" <anarcis...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>
>>
news:1aea7d0a-623f-4da3-b737-709b12f2db27@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 20, 5:14 am, raven1 <quoththera...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:03:24 -0500, "skysi" <f...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> >> >"DanielSan" <danielsan1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >> >news:rMOdnTU8H6BrJJfVnZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >> Shrikeback wrote:
>> >> >>> "DanielSan" <danielsan1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >> >>>news:M4KdnZfaKqQBKJfVnZ2dnUVZ_rHinZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >>>> skysi wrote:
>> >> >>>>> "DanielSan" <danielsan1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>news:dbednUfYnvuc5JfVnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >>>>>> ?????? ???????? wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> Folks, read works of Ayn Rand and a lot of your confusion in
>> >> >>>>>>> life,
>> >> >>>>>>> politics and economics will go away. You probably heard of 
>> >> >>>>>>> Atlas
>> >> >>>>>>> Shrugged, but that's not enough.
>> >> >>>>>>> She is the founder of philosophy of Objectivism. The 
>> >> >>>>>>> fundamentals
>> >> >>>>>>> of
>> >> >>>>>>> her philosophy are set forth in such nonfiction books as:
>> >> >>>>>>> For the New Intelectual, The virtue of Selfishness, 
>> >> >>>>>>> Capitalism:
>> >> >>>>>>> The
>> >> >>>>>>> Unknown Ideal., and Romantic Manifesto. Also read the 
>> >> >>>>>>> following:
>> >> >>>>>>> Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, edited by Harry
>> >> >>>>>>> Bibswanger
>> >> >>>>>>> and leonard Peikoff.
>>
>> >> >>>>>>> This will open your eyes on a lot of things.
>>
>> >> >>>>>> Ayn Rand was so scared of communism that she went to the
other
>> >> >>>>>> extreme
>> >> >>>>>> of fascism/cor****atism.  Rand was a nutcase.
>> >> >>>>> Please, before making an ignorant statements like that studdy 
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> subject you are talking about.
>> >> >>>>> Besides, do you even know what fascism is?
>> >> >>>> Yes.  Individual rights are subordinate to interests of an
>> >> >>>> authoritarian
>> >> >>>> state.
>>
>> >> >>> Which isn't Rand's ideology at all.  Still, that doesn't change 
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> fact that Objectivism is quasi-religous belief system with a
weird
>> >> >>> epistemology.
>>
>> >> >> Actually, you are incorrect.  The ideology of Rand is
authoritarian
>> >> >> because individual rights are subservient to the so-called "free
>> >> >> market".
>> >> >> In a Randian world, individuals are NOT allowed to collectively
get
>> >> >> together and create rules for everyone.  Randians espouse
"personal
>> >> >> freedom" while denying "personal freedom" for to form labor
unions; 
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> form governments.
>>
>> >> >> It's pure propaganda and a really bad lie.
>>
>> >> >As I said, apply your brain instead of emotion when you read her 
>> >> >works.
>> >> >Somehow, I don't think you really read anything, because if you
read 
>> >> >you
>> >> >wouldn't have come up with the rediculous statements above.
>>
>> >> What do you think John Galt or Howard Roark's opinion towards labor
>> >> unions would have been?
>>
>> > I believe that somewhere in the two-thirds of _Atlas_
>> > _Shrugged_ I managed to read long ago she has
>> > one or more _bad_ people who represent union
>> > leaders.  (It's been about 40 years so my memory
>> > is a little hazy.)  However, in the classical-liberal
>> > principles which Ayn Rand seems to espouse
>> > much of the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong
>> > with unions -- like cor****ations, they are simply an
>> > expression of the right to associate for economic
>> > advantage.  I don't think Rand is tremendously
>> > logical or consistent, however, and she is certainly
>> > not much of an observer of human behavior.   It
>> > would not surprise me if my memory turned out
>> > to be correct, as it sometimes does.
>>
>> 40 years ago... and it shows. First, she does nor champion any liberal
>> principles. Second, if you want to understand Objectivism read her
>> non-fictional works that I listed in my original message.
>
> As far as I can recall, Rand is a big fan of fundamental
> liberal principles like belief in rights to life, liberty, privacy,
> private property, freedom of contract, speech, association
> and so forth.  No?  Her _style_ is oddly totalitarian, but the
> results it produces, the practical philosophy that is
> displayed as a result, is liberal.
>