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Science Fiction > Written > Re: Oldest SF n...
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Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?

by "Christopher Adams" <mhacdeinvalidbhandia@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 16, 2008 at 07:04 AM

Steven L. wrote:
>
> Perhaps that's a weakness of SF in general:  It tends to ignore
> economics.  It was inevitable that the West's insatiable thirst for
> oil was going to make the Middle East Muslims very very wealthy--and
> with wealth comes power.  At the same time that money to pay for all
> that oil was being sucked out of America, making us poorer--and with
> that growing impoverishment comes increasing debt service.  Sooner or
> later, the imbalance of power would result in Islamism coming out of
> the woodwork and feeling its oats.  Which has now happened.

In 1986, Frederick Pohl serialised (in Analog) his novel THE COMING OF THE

QUANTUM CATS, which starts off in an alternate history (one of several in 
the narrative) where Saudi oil interests dominate the United States to the

extent that they've basically conquered them with economics. It wasn't
clear 
to me whether or not there had actually been a war - or, at least, I can't

recall if it's mentioned in the text - but Muslim emirs rule the country, 
and have imposed sharia: it's illegal for a man to swim topless in a
public 
pool, the drinking age is 35, and criminal punishments often include the 
loss of thumbs or fingers. Non-Muslims swear on both the Bible and the
Quran 
in courts of law.

-- 
Christopher Adams
Sydney, Australia

For theirs is the power and this is their kingdom
As sure as the sun does burn
So enter this path, but heed these four words:
You shall never return
 




 158 Posts in Topic:
Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ilya2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-12 13:48:47 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
David Cowie <me@[EMAIL  2008-05-12 20:59:08 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-12 21:44:51 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling&quo  2008-05-12 16:52:06 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Nobody in particula  2008-05-12 17:15:43 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Eric D. Berge <eric _   2008-05-12 17:37:21 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling"  2008-05-12 21:44:05 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling&quo  2008-05-12 18:17:14 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-13 00:29:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Matthias Warkus <Warku  2008-05-13 19:33:27 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-14 05:25:35 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Dworetsky"  2008-05-14 07:38:56 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-14 20:26:26 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-14 20:19:56 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
mvp@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (M  2008-05-16 06:04:29 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-19 00:44:06 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
David Johnston <david@  2008-05-20 02:31:55 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Steven L." <  2008-05-12 22:27:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-13 05:30:07 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Tapio Erola <txr@[EMAI  2008-05-13 13:25:32 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Christopher Adams&q  2008-05-16 07:04:01 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-12 22:24:36 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Tilque" &l  2008-05-13 09:29:51 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
pedrodias@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-05-12 15:56:29 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-13 00:28:13 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Steven L." <  2008-05-12 22:15:42 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-13 04:24:50 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l  2008-05-13 03:18:23 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Wolfspawn <cr608@[EMAI  2008-05-13 14:12:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"John" <john  2008-05-13 17:23:35 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
lal_truckee <lal_truck  2008-05-12 20:54:15 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-13 04:28:04 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
nebusj-@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-13 04:13:18 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
jdnicoll@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-13 14:57:41 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ilya2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-13 05:49:50 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
John Schilling <schill  2008-05-13 19:39:35 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ilya2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-13 06:11:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
wdstarr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-13 20:41:26 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
John Schilling <schill  2008-05-14 11:24:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Matthias Warkus <Warku  2008-05-15 00:38:20 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Michael S. Schiffer  2008-05-15 00:27:07 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-15 05:40:24 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
John Schilling <schill  2008-05-17 16:24:03 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
tmcd@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-22 19:19:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-23 07:16:10 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Michael S. Schiffer  2008-05-23 14:43:50 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
mvp@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (M  2008-05-29 04:39:43 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling"  2008-05-28 23:27:54 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-29 09:52:00 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
dbd@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (D  2008-05-29 01:50:42 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-13 12:20:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Tilque" &l  2008-05-14 06:34:28 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-14 08:01:58 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
urban@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-14 14:55:31 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ted@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (T  2008-05-14 16:01:20 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-14 21:40:47 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-14 21:01:52 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-15 07:30:34 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-14 20:22:47 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
dbd@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (D  2008-05-14 18:58:05 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-15 05:38:19 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
mimus <tinmimus99@[EMA  2008-05-15 15:58:34 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-15 17:32:43 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-14 21:59:56 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
John Schilling <schill  2008-05-14 11:24:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Matthias Warkus <Warku  2008-05-14 12:51:12 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
netcat <netcat@[EMAIL   2008-05-14 15:00:25 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
crystal@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-14 16:52:03 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
JXStern <JXSternChange  2008-05-14 01:37:01 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-14 05:26:19 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
JXStern <JXSternChange  2008-05-14 18:24:46 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"artyw2@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-05-14 06:09:55 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"John" <john  2008-05-15 08:59:28 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
DougL <lampert.doug@[E  2008-05-14 09:55:10 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-14 18:27:25 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-14 22:16:42 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
William Hyde <wthyde19  2008-05-14 13:53:23 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-14 14:02:12 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"artyw2@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-05-14 17:12:23 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ilya2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-15 05:27:08 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Bill Snyder <bsnyder@[  2008-05-15 08:08:09 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
jdnicoll@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-15 14:30:40 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
DougL <lampert.doug@[E  2008-05-15 07:38:16 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
wdstarr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-15 21:59:36 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Graham Woodland <gray@  2008-05-17 16:17:22 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
tmcd@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-22 18:58:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Kurt Busiek <kurt@[EMA  2008-05-22 12:07:44 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"John" <john  2008-05-23 12:59:41 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
pmfan57 <jwragusa@[EMA  2008-05-15 08:19:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-15 23:36:47 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Matthias Warkus <Warku  2008-05-16 10:10:25 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l  2008-05-23 16:26:41 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-23 21:08:55 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ted@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (T  2008-05-23 21:11:36 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Kurt Busiek <kurt@[EMA  2008-05-23 14:28:45 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
cgoodin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-26 20:17:24 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Steve Coltrin <spcoltr  2008-05-27 07:56:49 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-16 00:12:07 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-16 06:01:58 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
David Johnston <david@  2008-05-16 15:44:14 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Christopher Adams&q  2008-05-19 01:58:22 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-19 19:32:36 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-16 01:15:05 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Mike Stone <mwstone@[E  2008-05-16 01:37:49 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
William Hyde <wthyde19  2008-05-16 10:10:28 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
DougL <lampert.doug@[E  2008-05-22 18:39:12 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-23 02:00:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"rick++" <ri  2008-05-23 10:37:59 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
throopw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-23 18:55:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:05:34 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Thomas Lindgren <*****  2008-06-01 15:02:46 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:06:17 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-31 07:30:03 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling"  2008-05-30 23:43:52 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Matthias Warkus <Warku  2008-06-01 21:07:16 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Peter Huebner <no.one@  2008-06-02 11:07:21 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:11:04 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:12:24 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
ted@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (T  2008-05-29 14:33:22 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
acwheele@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-29 21:38:52 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
jdnicoll@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-30 03:43:56 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Michael S. Schiffer  2008-05-30 13:49:44 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
mchary@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-30 18:44:46 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
wdstarr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-30 23:16:21 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
goldfarb@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-31 10:03:57 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling"  2008-05-31 07:59:40 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
jdnicoll@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-31 15:30:41 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Michael S. Schiffer  2008-05-31 15:42:39 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:22:20 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
P. Taine <user@[EMAIL   2008-05-29 13:59:34 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
douglas winston <dougl  2008-05-29 11:24:31 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike Schilling&quo  2008-05-29 09:10:40 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Andrew Plotkin <erkyra  2008-05-29 16:31:36 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
chrisb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-29 15:10:51 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
nance@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-30 13:08:29 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Howard Brazee <howard@  2008-05-29 17:12:56 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
acwheele@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-29 21:38:52 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Peter Huebner <no.one@  2008-06-02 11:16:02 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Christopher Adams&q  2008-06-02 02:34:51 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Christopher Adams&q  2008-06-02 02:39:34 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:25:06 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l  2008-05-29 11:43:05 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Dan Goodman" &  2008-05-29 18:02:50 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Mike stone" &l  2008-05-31 07:38:19 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
wdstarr@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-29 18:43:35 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Taki Kogoma <quirk@[EM  2008-05-29 18:51:09 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-05-29 06:33:35 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
William Hyde <wthyde19  2008-05-29 09:30:54 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
jdnicoll@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-29 16:50:07 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Aaron Denney <wnoise@[  2008-05-29 17:53:08 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
throopw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-29 21:21:23 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Gene <gene@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-29 22:33:01 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Robert A. Woodward&  2008-05-29 22:24:23 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"Paul Ian Harman&quo  2008-05-30 18:23:31 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
Kurt Busiek <kurt@[EMA  2008-05-29 22:05:06 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
William Hyde <wthyde19  2008-05-30 12:00:24 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
William Hyde <wthyde19  2008-05-31 13:10:32 
Re: Oldest SF not necessarily most dated?
"ppint. at pplay&quo  2008-06-01 22:55:33 

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tan12V112 Fri Nov 21 17:04:11 CST 2008.